Sue had no idea it was a life-and-death situation. VERIFY: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs? I'm sure they still live in Columbine and are active in many community functions, especially the PTA. Born: 4-9-1981. For a couple reasons. The parents of Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold have often been portrayed as disengaged from the lives of their sons and unaware of the dark paths lying ahead. It didn't help matters any that our father was an abusive asshole. I don't believe I've said anything about gun control, of which this country has far too little of. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. Not to cure it, to manage it. For a couple reasons. By David Brooks. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. It profiles Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold's mother, and examines what lessons Americans should take away from the tragedy. So I'm gone. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. (They said no.) In this case, the other shooter played a pivotal role in stoking Dylans rage and allowing him to break out of his own passivity and actually take steps toward the suicide he craved. The couple took issue with people who say they forgive them for what happened. Under different circumstances it would've been a lot different. Sue (as both she and her son share the same surname, Im going to refer to them by their first names for the sake of clarity) begins by emphasizing that she and her husband, Tom, truly had no idea what Dylan was planning. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. . Maybe I'm just feeling too knowledgeable having been re-reading Steve Pinker's "How The Mind Works" recently. The family subsequently moved to Littleton CO in 1993, and Wayne Harris took a job at FlightSafety Services in Englewood CO, a company rumored to work closely . Join date : 2014-02-11. I'm sorry, all right. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. Dylan takes the camera then and begins filming Eric. What happened isn't their fault. She has spent the last 15 years excavating every detail of her family life, and trying to understand the crucial intersection . Harris was a sociopath. On August 30, 2006 Columbine obsessed 18 year old Alvaro Castillo would murder his father with a sawed off Mossberg 500 shotgun at their home and then drive to a local high school and open fire. If only we would have asked the right questions." Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. She went to Ohio State University where she dated Tom. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. [quote]He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. He was fiercely independent, insisting his mother teach him how to bathe himself at the age of 5 or 6, and how to do his own laundry at age 10. R77, there are people who don't have feelings. Dylan Bennett Klebold. Yesterday there was a girl in her backyard screaming like an insane person at somebody or something. The attack on Columbine is almost a prototypical school shooting, but one way in which it stands out is that it was committed by two people together. Bull fucking shit. Yet later, he sees them more as zombiestrickier though andmore manipulative. Eric also said he had purposefully not been spending much time with his family so there wouldn't be much "bonding" leading up to April 20 since that would make it harder to do. Dylan Klebold and Ryan Harris killed 13 people at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999. His father was an Air Force pilot, and moved him and his . There's no remorse, no connection to anything we would call human. Let's set aside the pipe bomb issue and Eric's scrapes with the law for a moment and ask why they weren't more involved with their kid. Outside Dylans journals, most of the information Sue got about Dylans frame of mind for the shootings came from a series of videotapes he and Eric had secretly made together. Though posthumous diagnosis isnt possible, that Dylan was seriously depressed is not up for debate (p. 160), and his behaviors might have also fit the criteria for other diagnoses such as avoidant personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, and/or borderline personality disorder. I think Tom had high expectations of Dylan and may have been a little bit of a nag, but in these regards he wasn't much different than a lot of parents. i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. Dylan Klebold (Dylan Bennet Klebold) was born on 11 September, 1981 in Lakewood, Colorado, United States, is a 20th century American mass murderers. crap. And for a best friend, did they spend much time together at all? . They have grown up to be (somewhat) upstanding members of society, but I don't see how it is so easy to go from knowing your kid is making crank calls and setting off amateur pipe bombs to seeing him as a psychopathic murderer. When asked about Dylan's behavior, Byron indicated that Dylan appeared to be somewhat detached and he went on to explain that as a "pissed off teenager." Byron went on to state that Dylan gave no indication to believe that something like this was going to occur. Has anyone seen it who can comment? VOTN, they used to think blood-letting and reading the bumps on people's head was science, too. R16 = Female with daddy issues who doesn't take kindly to unkind remarks toward her fellow twats. That's why I have so much contempt for the Harris and Klebold families. This is true. A place to discuss the massacre that took place at Columbine High School in Littleton, CO on April 20th, 1999. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. ERIC AND DYLAN 4 LIFE! Press J to jump to the feed. They could still have been on the outskirts of the school. They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. 17 year old son of Mr. Thomas Klebold (then 52) and Mrs. Susan (Yassenoff) Klebold (then 50), younger brother to Byron. Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. While I was able to share the manner by which she communicated her ideas and insights, I wasnt able to actually share those insights and ideas. As the mother of Columbine High School shooter Dylan Klebold prepares to speak out in her first interview since the gruesome 1999 shooting massacre, a survivor of the attacks has . As I often do, Ill leave the author the last word on why understanding the process her son went through is important: Dylan was vulnerable in many ways unquestionably emotionally immature, depressed, possibly suffering from a more serious mood or personality disorder. Growing up in Ohio, she had a mixed religious upbringing with her Christian mother and Jewish father. We relate. Adam killed 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary. I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. "Doctors" can profit, too, financially, when their names are attached to certain "studies.". Wayne & Kathy Harris are the parents of infamous Columbine HS shooter, Eric Harris. I'd add that Tom watched the basement tapes and even after seeing them first-hand, stated something to the effect of 'see he didn't want to do it' (I'm paraphrasing here). Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. A Further Examination: Sue Klebolds case study of her son, Dylan Klebold, Trauma and Suicide within Law Enforcement, Mental Health and Mass Murders: The Connection between Trauma and School Shootings, Mental Health Treatment in Correctional Facilities, Forensic Behavior Analysis: Self Care in the CJ Field, Trauma in Female Juvenile Inmates and Delinquents. Yes, it's really terrible when there is the free-flow of information and ideas, isn't it? Sue Klebold, mother of Columbine shooter Dylan Klebold, poses for a portrait on Feb. 23, 2016. But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. These things outweighed their concerns about him. Looking back on the textbooks suggested traits of school shooters, weve already seen above how Dylan does actually map onto many of them. The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds . Focus on the mental. I just don't get it. "This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain.". From what we cam tell, the Harris family took a laissez-faire attitude towards Eric. I'm not a troll anonymous. Sunday, April 25, 1999; Page A8. Teachers did nothing. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. Planning? Thank you! But she came to realize the truth was far more troubling. From her comment on her official website, she felt it was disrespectful to focus on the killers when today should be all about the victims. Introduction: My name is Golda Nolan II, I am a thoughtful, clever, cute, jolly, brave, powerful, splendid person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you. Spelling aside, Eric Harris had turned 18 about a week prior. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. It just seems all a bit odd. Very few people really care. Eric Harris was a garden variety psychopath, nothing very interesting about him. What a twat. 1/12 Tom is home from the hospital. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Sue Klebold Recalls What Her Son Dylan Was Like at Home: Part 2. I'm a true follower of Reb &VoDka. Eric and Dylan worked extremely hard to conceal their machinations. AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised.. [quote]You have to ignore a whole lot of what is wrong with society to limit it to a bogus discussion about how some people have "brains wired differently." Her recounting of the details of Dylans life, combined with what we learned about school shooters in general, paints a picture of how this particular child ended up committing one of the most infamous massacres in American history. Getty, AP, AP, AFP/Getty. I knew he was off, different. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. 6. His negative traits werent out of the ordinary either, really: he was very sensitive to embarrassment, which sometimes led to anger; and he was perhaps a little too independent, where he wouldnt ask for help even if he needed it like when he had to take a break from baseball after pains he never mentioned became so bad they caused his arm real damage. And now she won't show it. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. And although there was never anything we could do to put him away, so to speak, before he hurt someone, my mother would *never* claim in an aftermath that she had no idea of his mental state or his comings and goings or that she didn't know what made him that way. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. Hell, Klebold and a bunch of their friends went to the prom the weekend before the killings. I kind of admire that. In April 1981, Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas. Just three days before the shooting, he went to prom with a friend. Brookscolumn did not say when and where the interview took place. Sorry. Indeed, up until he died, he had been going to school, working a part-time job, hanging out with his friends, planning for college all behaviors of a normal teenager. A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. ". Here's what you need to know: 1. Those kids were their responsibility legally. You shouldn't attack people for the actions of their offspring. [quote]None of us knows exactly how the brain works. OSHKOSH, Wis. (WBAY) - A special event was held in Oshkosh Tuesday afternoon, where the mother Dylan Klebold, one of the two gunmen responsible for the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado . COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL massacre - WikiVidi Documentary. I go into Target and there are children shrieking like banshees in the shopping cart and the mother never says "Be quite. He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. Did those kids talk about this? I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Apparently his meds caused an issue with a military enlistment, but wouldn't a caring parent sit down with their kid and figure out a Plan B? I am with R14 and 15. IE 11 is not supported. But she focuses greatly on the lead-up to that day, hoping to shed light on what happened to her son in order to help someone else see signs in their own child while they still have a chance to intervene. on Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 The Harrises moved away almost immediately. Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. . Talking about the home video they took of that day, Its absolutely stunning how normal Dylan seems (p. 235). I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. When I was 16 my parents sure as hell would have known if I had firearms in my possession or were building pipe bombs anywhere near our home. They may show cruelty to animals, or alternatively a high degree of affection or attachment to animals. Tom and I failed to recognize these conditions and to curtail the influences violent entertainment, his friendship with Eric that exacerbated them. ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. WOuldn't one of the friends have felt him a little bit off, at the least? (They werent.) Stop doing that." Indeed, R96. Harris was excelling in classes in the year leading up to the murders. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. Second, the reason no one at the school noticed is because no one is ever trained to notice. . Those kids were their responsibility legally. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.". The owner (a woman) had no qualms about going up to people with a screaming child and saying "You need to take ze child out to ze car vare he can calm down. i think he was also quoted saying that he had lost his best friend. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. The term "psychopath" was in academic use by the early 1910s, and the definitive work on psychopathy was published in 1941. Dylan Klebold. I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. Harris parents, Wayne and Kathy Harris, have never spoken to reporters. -- b. There are a lot more R&V followers out there than you would think. What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. I must say, that rings true to me Id personally say it was because I was so self-sufficient and trustworthy as a child that my parents had no idea when I was going through (relative) difficulty in adolescence. Tonight, an interview with Sue Klebold, Dylan's mother, is set to air on the ABC news-magazine . Byron Klebold is Dylan's older brother - photo of him at link. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. She also spent a lot of time conferencing with my teachers to know how well I was doing in school and she was interested in my assignments. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". Haven't most of you been able to conceal your homosexuality from your family for a number of years? At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric . If I didn't know that I would have done the same. They lie. None of us knows exactly how the brain works. Firstly, like everyone else he didn't pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his 'best friend.'. Sue provides details that help us address some of the other considerations as well. The world was shocked and sickened on April 20, 1991, when crazed students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, slaughtered 12 students and one teacher at Colorado's Columbine High School. Klebold was depressed and fell under Harris's influence. Nothing taken care of that I needed him to do (like take care of the cats). I don't believe that Tom and Sue were annoying parents. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. ". His parents knew this, though not the extent of it. However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently. LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) _ Columbine High School gunman Dylan Klebold was a follower, not a leader, who went astray after he met Eric Harris, friends say. Cullen, who covered the story for the former Rocky Mountain News, seems to take the view that the Harrises were willfully ignorant of their son's personality (and Major Wayne Harris honestly seems like a bit of a tyrant), and the Klebolds were just clueless. That kid was born with some sort of brain injury. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. (p. 311-312) Synthesizing the many factors, its argued that most school shooters have a history of social rejection, along with either psychological problems, an interest in weapons, and/or a fascination with death (p. 314). When he heard reports of gunmen in trench coats rampaging through Columbine High, it's reported, that Thomas Klebold (the father of Dylan) contacted authorities, because he suspected his son might be involved and offered his help as a negotiator.. The oblivious parents in Target or sitting inside their houses listening to their kids having a meltdown and completely ignoring it. Harris was a "budding psychopath, a person without a conscience," he said. I knew it wasnt nearly so simple (p. 146). He was enrolled in a program for juvenile offenders run by the county court, he was taken to a psychiatrist and given both therapy and medication. What happened to them? Sociopaths are born, but people who remain sociopaths as they age: either missed puberty; or had bad parents. His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. Too bad a pack of rabid Columbine mommies can't get together and make a punching bag out of her. I wanted an apology. Or if they are, it's not because they're running amok in the store. Sue Klebold. Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. (21 at the time). Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. His parents were Wayne and Katherine. There was a creepy thread started by a sociopathic OP a couple of weeks ago where this was discussed. . The parents of Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, remained in seclusion Wednesday as a global media horde encamped at their houses after the murderous rampage Tuesday at Columbine High School. [quote]Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . "This was murder," he said. Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? They do not have a moral center that can be reached. Very well said, r18. You can't learn to feel if you don't. I havent done anything for which I need forgiveness, Susan Klebold said. I honestly do believe (and so does mom) that his brain has been rewired primarily by a head injury he sustained when he was just toddling. YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! Harris also had sadistic tendencies, which propelled him to "seek vengeance.". Hi Alison, Here, let me get your coats for you. As a reporter scribbled, Hooker reconsidered. The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. KleboldI started reading the Columbine book, how does he try to explain Klebold? it was probably dylan just being a snarky and sardonic person if the relationship had ever crumbled, or a classic father/son conflict. He felt a need to be in control. [quote]Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. Posted 3 years ago Sue Klebold. When someone is in a store, that is not their own private property. Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. This was murder, he said. "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylan's best friend. He was a sociopath and needed drugs and a really good psychiatrist. As a . (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this. A 'Gentle Boy,' His Parents Told Investigators, Klebold Was Enrolled in an Elementary School Program for High Intellectual Potential Students. In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . Both Adam and Dylan seemed to have good relationships with their moms (though Adam actually ended up killing his mother the day of the shooting), both struggled in school (Adam actually switched schools a few times. In Cub Scouts, he was a bright, dedicated boy who worked hard for his badges. It would be comforting to think otherwise. Ten years after the Columbine killings, the Harris family has not spoken publicly at all, and the Klebold parents have given one interview, to the columnist David Brooks here at the New York Times. Some folks do indeed work from very primitive brain impulses.